And here is another entry in our continual pursuit of cool Sightings, in the wild, as it were. People often point us to extreme high-end systems they run across. And here is another written up by a dealer in Taiwan [thanks to Florian for finding this].

ZS HiFi: The world’s first pair of users Marten Coltrane Supreme

Apparently the this Taiwan dealer was one of the first, if not the first, to sell a pair [or is that quad?] of Coltrane Supreme speakers.

Their customer’s system, that we see here, is running a Bladelius CD player and amp. Bladelius makes the subwoofer amp that the Supremes use and is another Swedish company.

I note how that have a video screen mounted in the ceiling behind/between the speakers. We have been wanting to do this for forever but for some husband/wife arguing about precise positioning and size issues [take that however you want ].

They also have a little Marten Duke monitor speaker on their equipment rack. And B&O speakers in the ceiling corners.

I love the look of the highly polished floor [wood or bamboo] and the speaker’s reflection but wonder at the sonic consequences.

I used the Google Chrome browser to translate the page, and I have to tell you, even translated it is not easy to understand much of what is being said. They run Karaoke through the Marten Dukes… OK…. but movies too? Seems like such a waste…

Marten has a little competition going… here at: http://www.martencompetition.com/

Hope somebody we know wins….

[These Marten versus Kharma questions are very popular. I try to answer each one of these a little differently, to hopefully allow people, over the course of all these answers, to paste together a more accurate picture of the two ‘house sounds’.]

THE QUESTION

I’m curious to know how the Coltrane Momento’s have worked out? I have only seen one review of them (which was very positive), but they seem to have been brought to market rather quietly - as compared to the hoopla of the Supreme several years earlier. Have you had any in your shop for audition? If so, how do you like them? Anything glaringly right or wrong?

I like the look of these speakers - simple to hook up, simple footprint….but apparently with some great components and considerable thought all on board.

THE ANSWER

Yeah, I guess statement products [the Supremes] do receive a lot more hoopla than the penultimate [the Momentos] - and perhaps because the Momentos are comparably priced to so many other speakers these days, they just don’t stand out like the Coltrane Supreme speakers do? All just speculation on my part - but I do agree the buzz has been rather muted (undeservedly so, IMHO).

No, unfortunately we have not had the Momentos in the shop. We heard them extensively at CES last year, loved them [sounded just like we expected them to], and we were actually interested in purchasing that particular pair, but another line [no, I’m not telling which one ] we carry had a hiccup and we decided we just could not swing it at that time. And, now, of course, we are planning on moving the shop, so getting another big speaker just does not seem like the prudent thing to do at this time. [We periodically try to actively sell the Coltrane Supreme speakers so that we can get a pair of Coltrane Momento speakers for awhile - as you may have seen on this blog - only to later think this would be nuts and we can’t live without the Supremes. Kind of an emotional issue here at Audio Federation.]

The Momentos sound similar to the Coltrane Supreme speakers - which we love - and in some instances may be more convenient [2 speakers instead of 4, no external crossover box, and like if, say, you wanted to use an integrated amp like the Audio Note Ongaku to drive them - the absence of an outboard amp (which the Supremes have and the Momentos do not) simplifies things a bit]. Let’s get to your next question, which allows us to talk about these speakers in context, the context being another great set of speakers

>> Hello again - I also wanted to ask about the Marten’s: generally speaking how are they voiced relative to Kharma (a brand that I’ve some experience with)??

* The Marten sound is more determined by upstream equipment and setup than is the Kharma sound. (i.e. the Marten is capable of having more different kinds of sounds than the Kharma)
* The Kharma sound typically creates a larger soundstage and bigger sound, all else being equal [although this is changing with the new Coltrane 2 and maybe the Momento as well]
* The Kharma sound is typically more overtly detailed in the midrange and lower treble [though I think this is changing with the newer Kharma black label drivers] than the Marten sound
* The Marten sound has a blacker background and is more revealing of subtleties than the Kharma sound

One way to look at them is that the Kharma is a party speaker, exuberant, exciting, invigorating, … and the Marten is a truth speaker, beautiful, mind-mucking, deeply insightful…

Please understand I am somewhat exaggerating the differences to help you understand their intrinsic character …. They are both capable of doing all these things quite well.

Hope this helps!

This is actually the first room we went to at the Venetian - but because the photo filenames rolled over from 9999 to 0001, the directory listing on Windows listed these at the bottom of the page. OK, yes, I also just plain forgot what order we went to room this Thursday morning - not the least reason is because we went back to most of these rooms several times.

Marten was debuting their new Coltrane 2 loudspeakers ($95K) and M-Amps ($45K pair). The source was the Emm Labs XDS1 and PRE2. Jorma Prime cabling except for some unknown-to-me power cords. So, except for the equipment racks (also by Marten) everything here was very familiar - so I should be able to figure out just what the speakers and amps sound like, right?

Well….

It was only by going back and forth between this room and the other Coltrane 2 room, the Engstrom & Engstrom, that I figured out the speakers, at least to the extent that we now forgive Marten for calling these the *COLTRANE* 2.

The Coltrane 1 is the best medium-sized box speaker made - and by a wide margin [specifically in terms of transparency to the upstream components. Think Ongaku, Fifth Element, your fave turntable, whatever - we personally really WANT TO HEAR what these kickass components reveal in the music]. When we heard about the ‘2′, we thought they were A) going to discontinue the ‘1′ [we now know they are keeping the ‘1′ around, at least for a year or so], and, well, B) $95K for the ‘2′ is a lot more than the $70K for the ‘1′ . So we considered how we would buy up all the Coltrane ‘1’s that came available - making sure we and our fellow audiophiles would always be able to get a pair.

Well, forget that.

Coltrane ‘1’s are great, but… here is what I heard the ‘2′ bringing to the party:

1) A greater sense of ease to the music - which usually takes a larger, more expensive amp to achieve

2) More separation - again, this usually requires better $$$ cables, an amp able to control the speakers better, or a better source [note that this is on the top end, with the 1″ diamond tweeter, and at the bottom, with the dual very large ceramic bass drivers]

3) Uber bass resolution. There was stuff going on in the bass that I previously have only thought could happen in the midrange. *Distinct* notes. *Distinct* notes in the bass octaves, people! For me, this opens a whole new world of music, new melodies that I can follow ‘down there’, and this is what I have been finding myself really enjoying about music lately - all these different melodies happening at once in living color.

So, one really gets a whole lot of sound with the Coltrane 2 speakers that would be hard, expensive, or impossible to get with the Coltrane 1, much less your average everyday $$$ speaker.

The black diamond racing cone feet are twice as tall as with the previous Marten speakers.

You can KIND OF see the 1″ diamond tweeter there. The Coltrane 1 has a 3/4″ diamond tweeter.

WBT Nextgen connectors. Not sure what we think about these, specifically about WBT Nextgen connectors in general.

In the end, I never quite figured out the M-Amps. They didn’t have much of a sound [a good thing for solid-state amps!], perhaps being, I would say, ’smooth but with resolution’ - somewhat like the older top-end of the Edge amp family [Edge has been moving towards more dynamics, esp. in the lower octaves], or Vitus. They did not seem to grip the speaker as well as Sanders - but these are all very subtle differences here. Because of room bass issues [much better after the first day] it was somewhat hard to get a sense of what these amps do with bass at high volume [it is easiest for me, being the lazy bum I am, to hear how well an amp is controlling a speaker by focusing on the lower notes, although lower mids sometimes work for this purpose as well].

EAR turntable and phono stage. Emm Labs XDS1 CD player and PRE2 preamp.

[We are going through the rooms in the order that I saw them. There were just a few rooms that I went to first, before starting the more regimented room to room search. Neli and I went to these few rooms together, which was the first time we have done this in several years].

EAR electronics on Marten ‘Bird’ speakers.

There were a number of sources here: reel-to-reel, CD and computer. A number of tracks on the computer were recorded from the reel-to-reel. Dan tried to convince me that tracks recorded this way from tape and played back on the laptop sounded better than the CD of the same track. It was certainly less compressed, but I am not certain that there wasn’t some bad stuff inserted by the laptop in there as well. In this very limited demonstration, in fact, I didn’t like the sound much on either the CD nor the laptop. The EAR-modded R-to-R sounded great though

EAR electronics on Marten ‘Duke’ speakers

New Jorma Design cables to replace their ‘No. 1′ speaker cables. The cable is slightly rounder and smaller than the No. 1. Bybees are no longer used but the wooden ornamentation remains. The sound is much closer to the Jorma Design ‘Orego’ cables (which appear immediately above the No. 1 in their line of cables).

Just a few photos to give a taste…

YG Acoustics speakers driven by Tenor amps. Bass issues in room did not hide the fact that te mid and uppers were very nice.

Marten’s new Coltrane 2 speakers and amplifiers. Bass issues in room did not hide the fact that there was an ease and authority to these speakers that the Coltrane 1’s did not have. Lots to do with the 1″ tweeter as much or more than the increased size of the cabinet and woofers

Soundlab’s new inwall speakers. Demo of the inwall speakers is tonight or tomorrow night (sorry, I am too old to remember nothing)

Kimber / IsoMike / EmmLabs / Sony room. Best by far I’ve heard these Sony’s sound.

Dynamic Contrast was exhibiting some innovative vibration-controlling equipment racks. The test I conducted was inconclusive - need a better test track [mostly, I just feel how much the chassis of the equipment is vibrating - and listen too, of course]

Marten has announced the new ‘Coltrane 2′ loudspeaker which will be debuted at CES 2011 this next January in Las Vegas. We’ve only known about this a few days… and are we ever anxious to hear them!

The most visible change is the two 11 inch woofers replacing the two 9 inch woofers on the previous Coltrane (which we have enjoyed very much and displayed in the Audio Federation room at RMAF 2010)

A closeup of the announcement. The price is expected to be around $85K a pair (the previous Coltrane was $70K).

[The demo pair of cherrywood Coltrane speakers we played in our room at RMAF 2010 to such wonderful effect are still available at a decent discount *hint* *hint* ]

The Coltrane 1 is one of the best loudspeakers, if not THE best, at its size in the fricking world [and we are ALWAYS looking for other speakers that can do what these speakers do - i.e. get completely out of the way of the music].

These changes will obviously give the Coltrane 2 more bass and a somewhat larger scale with respect to their overall presentation.

Marten has also announced a hefty 600 watt amplifier. It will be about $45K a pair.

We’ve been talking a lot here about the dearth of high-quality solid-state amplifiers - i..e those able to reproduce micro-dynamics at scale. It will be interesting to see what these sound like

Mike Valentine has written up the Marten Momento speakers [their second largest, penultimate speakers] . The Momento speaker article has several photos and his listening impressions (fortuitously for most of us here, it has been translated into English ):

Mike Valentine: Marten Momento Speakers

[Thanks Mike!]

After the last post, it has come to our attention that some people still do not know what the $295K Coltrane Supreme speakers are.

Nor what we mean by competent, nor by capable.

First, we do not use the word ‘best’, because by ‘best’ most people mean that the speakers work and that someone - with likely limited experience in the high-end, corruptible ethics, or whose vocabulary is limited to about 10 words - somewhere, likes the speakers sound better than the sound of other things they have heard and so they grunt out ‘best’ or ‘blows me away’.

By COMPETENT we mean they do the thing speakers are supposed to do… i.e. convert the electronic signal they are given into sound in a way that is actually faithful to the signal they are given.

No, most speakers DO NOT do this. They try to make impressive sound in response to a signal, whether that signal is impressive or not. They try to be enjoyable, or engaging, or coherent, or dynamic - both to 1) compensate for the anticipated problems the manufacturers anticipate their speakers will have to deal with vis-a-vis upstream components, and 2) to cater to the natural desires of humans to enjoy / brag about / talk about overly emphasized aspects of music (and of life in general) [i.e. people do not mind, for awhile, something that is too sweet, too dynamic, to detailed, too big breasted… but it will get old and it is almost certainly fake].

An example of competency? Well two actually.

First, the 2.5 inch diamond midrange handles all frequencies between 1200 and 8000 Hz. So in a large sense, the Supremes are able to achieve the coherence, imaging and soundstage of a single-driver speaker, using the best [conventional] driver known to man or woman.

Second, the active bass is powered by a [included] 2000 watt / channel solid-state amp. Compared to other speakers with powered subwoofers [big Von Schweikerts, YG Acoustics, etc], and closest competition price-wise [Focal Grande Utopia FE, Acapella, Kharma Grand Exquisites] the two dedicated towers of 6 10inch high-resolution ceramic woofers, with phase and volume control to adjust to the room] has the ability to render DETAILED bass. Yes, it can sound impressive when your teenage son’s friends come over - but, and this is what is amazing, it can also sound real. Like real instruments. Or rather, it just reproduces the electronic signal it is given by the upstream components. It will sound natural on jazz, and tight and electronic on Techno and ethereal on classical movements recorded in large halls.

Yes, some people want that BOOM boom big boom box sound with marginal detail or structure for the bass frequencies on every track of every kind of music. And the speakers above try to do the best they know how within the limitations imposed by the speaker’s design [and certainly, people put the most gawdawful amps on them that exacerbates this, esp. at shows]. But for people who want a little more, who have the wherewithal and desire, you can choose to have a competent speaker that allows the music to sound like music, even below 100Hz.

By CAPABLE we mean that the sound coming out the speaker is not only influenced by upstream components [most are, though some, still sold as high-end audio speakers, are not] but the sound is almost completely determined by the upstream components. Capable is really 1) having no [little] sound of its own and 2) having no [minimal] limitations on what kind of signal it can reproduce.

An example of capable is the ability to render decay properly [as determined by the input signal]. With the latest Emm Labs players (XDS1, TSD1/DAC2) and Nordost ODIN cable (and top flight components) the background is so black, and there is so much control over the signal, that the decays in each note are almost orgasmic. If you have ever strummed a REALLY good acoustic guitar, or hit a key on a really good piano, you know about decay. These are the kinds of instruments musicians are using, why aren’t you hearing it on your system? It is one of the most delicate aspects of a note, and one most audiophiles have had to ignore. For many years we blamed the source media, but we were wrong.

The point is that most speakers are incapable of rendering this kind of decay [which, by the way, the $60K Coltranes can also do].

Maybe this, and the 100s of things we do not have time to talk about, like inner harmonic detail and color, evenness of treatment of all kinds of dynamics from 20Hz up, etc. that we have heard with everything from the Lamm ML3 and Audio Note On-Gaku and Kegon Balanced, to Edge NL Reference amps] is not important to you, personally. Maybe you like to put ketchup on everything you eat. Me, I like to taste the actual food [music]… but then again Neli puts hotsauce on everything that is green.

—————-

Sure, we all enjoy speakers that are cheaper or have lots of flaws here and there - often because of a few individual strengths which we treasure. Most of us even enjoy our measly car stereos to some extent. That is not the point. The point is if you want the ability to stop worrying about how your speakers are Mucking up the sound of all this great gear you have, and want to worry instead about how there are people in this world that have way way more LPs than you do, then these speakers can do that for you.

Well, its like this.

Marten has just come out with their new Momento speakers. We want to try them here. We want to try them here for a, shall we say, extended period of time.

We *could* put them downstairs I guess, in front of the stairwell.

But…

What we really want to do is put them upstairs. But the Coltrane Supremes are there, right?

So what we want to do… is to sell the Supremes to a [soon to be deliriously happy] audiophile and put the Momentos up in the main room.

We think we can get Momentos here by Christmas - so we are motivated to do this quickly.

So all you who have been poking around looking at these, which are the - and I can still say it because it is unfortunately still true: the only competent speaker (and the most capable) made today - this is your chance.

If you look at linearity of response (across frequency, micro-, midi- and macro-dynamics, harmonic, and SPL ranges), drivaeability, ease of in-room placement and adjustment - everything. Nothing even comes close.

The Marten Coltrane Supremes

And, for you fans, we WILL be getting a new pair of Supremes again. Access to unlimited, audiophile-quality bass is addictive [a key point, most other big speaker bass is not audiophile quality, its just loud]. And the 2.5 inch diamond midrange… well… hmmmm… this seemed like a good and logical idea for the store when we talked about it a few weeks ago…. and we really *are* a store, we can’t just keep these here forever… can we?

Well, Neli is going smack me upside the head [several times no doubt] but I think we do need to play with the Momentos some here and learn exactly what they can do. We are Audio Federation. We are the experts. This is what we do, right? Right??

So our precious Supremes are now available at a reasonable price [well, not completely reasonable. But more reasonable]. For those of you who desire the best, the best just might finally be within your reach.